Microsoft planning WiFi-enabled portable media player, working on MVNO for next year

Ok, by now it's more or less an open secret that Microsoft is going to shift away from its current model and go straight after the iPod with a portable media player of its own, but we've landed some exclusive details about the new player courtesy of a trusted insider who is party to some of the discussions Microsoft is having with potential content partners.

Here's what we've learned:

Microsoft's new portable audio and video player will have a screen that's "bigger than that of the iPod video" (which isn't really saying much) and built-in WiFi so you can not only download content directly to the player (sort of like with the MusicGremlin), but actually participate in an Xbox Live-like social network that will help you connect with other people with similar taste and interests. Whether that's going to be the Live Anywhere service they introduced at E3 we don't yet know. But we do know the tag line they're pitching for the device combined with this new network is "Connected Entertainment."

But it gets better. To attract current iPod users Microsoft is going to let you download for free any songs you've already bought from the iTunes Music Store. They'll actually scan iTunes for purchased tracks and then automatically add those to your account. Microsoft will still have to pay the rights-holders for the songs, but they believe it'll be worth it to acquire converts to their new player.

Right now the new player is schedule to launch in November, but our source also tells us that Microsoft isn't stopping with a WiFi-enabled PMP, they're actually going to launch an MVNO next year using all Windows Mobile-powered HTC handsets. These handsets will let users connect to the same social network you'll be able to access over WiFi using the portable media player.

P.S. - Yes, we're still trying to get our hands on a non-blurry pic.

[JinKazama @ Jul 6th 2006 10:04AM]

I love the fact the MS is doing this. Not so much that I want the product, but because competition is always good for the consumer. If nothing else MS will put millions behind this thing (i.e..Xbox) and at the very least keep apple on it P's and Q's when it comes to quality and innovation.

[Nick @ Jul 6th 2006 10:13AM]

I'm a real fan of Microsoft and their products (except of xbox) I like the idea of a Microsoft media player, especially a HTC device with all the same funtionality. This may finally be the turning point for the mediaplayer/phone/pda Imagine walking down the street listening to your tunes on a 8-16GB flash device then all the sudden the volume goes down at the phone rings. You push a button on your stereo bluetooth headset and talk to a freind for a few minutes who tells you about this new funny video he just found. You pull out your phone/pda/mediaplayer from your pocket and download the video and watch it as you are talking to your friend. Life does not get more simple than that.

[AC @ Jul 6th 2006 10:14AM]

Sounds like a good move with the itunes-scanning thing. It'll be interesting to watch MS and Apple duke it out on this one.

[Jasafar @ Jul 6th 2006 10:16AM]

Nice. It's good that they're making the offer to download what you already own in itunes for free. Great stuff. Now, if they just make sure to make their device not all restricted so we can easily load our regular .mp3s too... also support for other codecs would be nice too.. flac, shn, ogg, etc. Microsoft, remember you want to attract the geeks, so don't take the wrong approach!

[jon @ Jul 6th 2006 10:24AM]

Wow. This is exciting.

I wish it would run on Macintosh as well. But it probably won't. :*(

[Wanax @ Jul 6th 2006 10:28AM]

Jasafar,

The geeks and their small market share doesn't matter. Mainstream consumers matter, that's why iPods are so successful. OGG and FLAC support are great and all but Joe Schmoe doesn't know what they are and would just be confused with all those acroynms on the box. All it needs is a big sticker saying "ITUNES COMPATIBLE" or in this case the fact that it can import your existing ITUNES songs.

I've been holding off on getting an iPod for awhile now and would love to see if MS's offereing has what it takes to interest my pocketbook

[Todd @ Jul 6th 2006 10:29AM]

I look forward to having 3 gig, of the 8 gig capacity, devoted to the device's operating system. I also look forward to having to validate each downloaded song via the Windows Genuine Advantage web page - not to mention that sweet, sweet Blue Screen of Death.

[anna @ Jul 6th 2006 10:32AM]

I would want to have iTMS music worth $ 10,000 and then get one of those ... just as it would cause a lot of loss to M$. :p
(then again, I would use any Xbox mainly to play with Linux with it..)

[Rahat @ Jul 6th 2006 10:33AM]

Microsoft is crazy. This is why they rule the world. I'm not much into music, or spending hundreds of dollars for a 3 inch screen, but thats pretty snazzy.

I think its the funniest thing in the world that they would lose money just to show Apple up.

I guess you can do that sort of thing when your CEO has a 50 billion dollar bank account.

-
rahat

[Jeff @ Jul 6th 2006 10:36AM]

All I can say is "meh". And I'm not one to use that word lightly.

What about the 95% of iPod users who have never bought a track from the iTunes music store? Why would we switch? Or the 95% of the rest of the world that still has all their music on CD and doesn't have any player? Why deal with WMP, one of the crappiest pieces of software out there, along with URGE, the only music store I've ever tried to use that literally does not even work on any PC I try it on?

The point is as Sony proved to us, it's not just the IDEA of having a big connected "ecosystem" that's attracted people to the iPod, it's the execution. Sony tried the same thing MS is now trying and they failed just as spectacularly as MS will.

I don't really see wi-fi being a very big deal in a music player, because it doesn't really have anything to do with the way people actually use music players. Think about it. Either you use wi-fi at home or you use it outside, at a hotspot. So, let's take the hotspot - am I really going to think of a song I want to download out of the blue, then head on over to Starbucks or something just to download it? No. Now, let's think of how people use their players at home. Most people connect their players to their PC's to charge them - in fact, with a lot of players (specifically newer iPods), it's the only way to do so out of the box. Given that, what does wi-fi give me? I still need to plug the damn thing in to charge it. This is a non-feature if you ask me. It's also going to lead to messy libraries (because it decentralizes the library from the PC), and the fact is most people with portable music players aren't downloading their music anyway, but that's almost beside the point.

Honestly, guys, it's game over and it has been for a long time. Until there's another paradigm shift in the way we use media, nobody's going to dethrone Apple. If Sony couldn't do it, MS is not gonna do it either. MS has even less experience in entertainment devices, and their track record in software (from a useability standpoint) is less than stellar. Worse, WMP10 is already available - so we already have half the equation to look at here - and it's junk. Whether you like iTunes or not. I mean, take all the bad things about iTunes and magnify them about 100 times, then add on negatives like having to manually set up your own music stores (which means another, separate download). That's what we're dealing with here.

[Mike10010100 @ Jul 6th 2006 10:43AM]

Well thanks for the disillusionment guys. I was all excited about this but as Jeff has clearly stated, things aren't all they are cracked up to be.

[Jonathan Sundy @ Jul 6th 2006 10:52AM]

You make a lot of good points but also some moot ones Jeff.

Personally I hate iTunes as a music player, first and foremost. Though I'm rather biased against Apple so I guess that doesn't say much.

Windows Media Player 11 is much more likely the venue for their new mp3 player, and although I have yet to have a chance to play with it, I've heard a good amount of positive things about it.

I do believe that the ability to download songs when you think about it would be rather handy. It's not necessarily a NEEDED feature, but it's something that's mighty useful when it comes in handy. If they can create a way to build knowledge of music solely on the device, by say comparing your collection to others near by, they can encourage use of the device.

In order to break the reign of the ipod, there needs to be a shift like you said. It seems, atleast i'm guessing it seems, that they are going to try to build up the use of your mp3 player in a community settting. If they can create a new intuitive way for people to share music that they like with each other, and therefor expand people's music selection, they can encourage both the sale of music and their device.

Being able to grab a song on the fly out of the air allows for users to do something public with their device that may be considered cool. That gets you recognized. That's how you spread a new device.


The iPod did a lot of things right for a lot of people. It has a simple interface, it simply looks good, and it allows for a unified library between computer and mobile device. Microsoft will need to recognize and meet all those needs as well as adding something new if they have any hope of topping the iPod.



And I disagree with your Sony statements. The company has gone to crap, and haven't done anything worthwhile in years.

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 11:01AM]

WMP is indeed awful.
But so is iTunes. Both have terrible ways of managing libraries. iTunes is hard to configure into a small, manageable window.

Both are far inferior to the ease and power of Winamp. Which is why iTunes isn't even on my computer - I just use Winamp to transfer mp3s to my iPod.

I'd gleefully give up my iPod, 4th Gen, for something newer and better. But there's nothing out there that makes me want to pay the money. Hopefully this will. If it lets me use Winamp I'm happy.


I also fail to see why people talk about "dethroning" Apple. Who needs to? Apple has such an overwhelming majority of the market, but people are growing tired of the conformity and looking for an alternative. With the right marketing someone can easily bite a chunk into them. Not dethrone, but a chunk. That's all Microsoft will really need. Apple can still be the champ, but if Microsoft can be a convincing #2...


The market is big enough for many companies to be profitable. Look at Walkmen. Yes, Sony always led. But every electronics company made versions, and most made nice profits. Sony was #1, but they weren't the majority of players sold. They were just clearly the largest minority.
Right now Apple is the majority. That can't last. No consumer good market stays that way. They have nowhere to go but down. Sure, they'll keep the lead, and they'll keep earning tons of money. But they'll no longer be the only option out there.

[mkh @ Jul 6th 2006 11:03AM]

Jeff, where are you getting your statistics regarding iPod vs iTunes usage? I've been curious about that for a while, since ostensibly the iPod is a loss leader to generate profit via the iTMS.

[Charlie @ Jul 6th 2006 11:04AM]

Glad to see everyone has condemned this thing while it is still in the rumor stage. I mean all we've gotten are a few sketch details. "a bigger screen" that could mean anything. Is it 16:9? Is this thing touchscreen? I'm not sayin MS has an ace up its sleeve, but give them a chance.

They don't have as much experience as Sony, but Sony has no idea what is going on in any of its markets right now. They are just flopping around.

Also Jeff as far as URGE goes... I admit the whole WMP11 is a little buggy at the moment but if you want software that is anywhere close to perfect, don't download betas. I already prefer WMP11 over iTunes (buggy as it is).

And regarding the "95%" of people who dont buy music through iTunes that is a gross overstatement. I will admit that Apple's video sales have not been that succesful, but their music sales do fairly well.

[mooman @ Jul 6th 2006 11:08AM]

Jeff sounds like the iPod users who said colour screens and video playback on mp3 players are gimicks.

The use of Wifi is a great idea. Theres probably going to be digital music vending machines in record stores soon and it would be a easy way to find and buy new music.

Sony never stood a chance against the iPod because their players cost a lot more than iPod, their stupid approach in not supporting mp3 until late into the game and the forced use of the worst software ever: sonicstage.

Microsoft seems to have put its money where its mouth is. This will create great competition with other companies dropping prices and improving features for their own players.

[primetime @ Jul 6th 2006 11:15AM]

This is going to be the ugliest and least user friendly player on the market. Microsoft does not have the same reputation for high end hardware or design that Apple (or Sony) have. A lot of users are even fed up with their software. Microsoft should start with trying to build a better OS because Leopard is going to close the gap even more with Vista.

[dhruv @ Jul 6th 2006 11:19AM]

i really dont care. i just bought an ipod and will keep it for the next 3 yrs at least. i am more than happy with it. as it is there is no music download sites in india.thats where limewire comes in. HEE HEE!!! newayz i just like listnenin to quality music. and i am more than happy with my video ipod.

[Jonathan Sundy @ Jul 6th 2006 11:22AM]

mkh: I think you got it backwards, I'm pretty sure itunes is the lossleader.... scratch that. I'm pretty sure they break just about even on itunes to crack a hefty profit on the overpriced iPod.

moo - WiFi stations similar to the Nintendo-DS demo stations is a REALLY cool idea.

and far as I recall the iPod has always been a relatively expensive music device (though sony has always been overpriced too). It's just that it has become the social defacto so people accept the price as part of it being almost a status symbol.



All things equal Microsoft could probably win a large audience if they advertised a good warranty or non-shoddy construction. Never knew an iPod owner that didn't have their's break one way or another.

[Paul @ Jul 6th 2006 11:25AM]

Couple of points:

Does anybody believe the Music companies (i.e., the RIAA) is going to be happy about listeners sharing tunes over a network? I guarantee that feature won't happen or last.

As someone said previously, it's all about execution. If MS can't make it seamless then they are lost. Sony made an attempt with players whose features topped all the current iPods (in battery life & formats and features like radio's), but the whole system was crap. MS doesn't have a much better track record. Consumers have excepted the need for complexity with their computers but don't want it for their music.

Having said that, bring on the competition. It'll be good for the consumer. I love my iPod but the innovations from Apple are coming a bit slow and thin. I think Apple is getting a little fat and lazy with all those profits piling in. they need someone to push the innovation envelope. MS is just the one to do it. because they'll throw money at it.

[paul_b @ Jul 6th 2006 11:28AM]

I think the WiFI connection is a smart move - it allows MS to have a player with a small drive that is adequate for journeys, but at home or the office it becomes a thin client for a music server. That gives you the benefit of lower cost without sacrificing library size.

I already use a PSP as a network player for iTunes when I am at home or near my laptop, It saves me buying a big memory stick and lets me hear *all* my music, not just the small selection that I could fit on a stick.

Also, given the number of city-wide WiFi installations that are mooted, how long before you can hear a song on an FM station on your player, then immediately download it?

As long as they don't try to make it a mini-Pc and remember that it's a consumer device, I'll be investigating it.

[i.p.freely @ Jul 6th 2006 11:31AM]

not gonna do much... It all comes down to user interface... If this thing is anything like what MS is capable of, it will be useless and not intuitive and will come with more junk than you and I will ever need.

And from the sound of this, it's nothing more than a Freaking phone with music player.

Number one reason why iPod has been so successful is because of it's ease of use. Not everybody wants a Swiss Army Knife. they just want a Knife.

And all this speculation is based on Apple of today and what they are offering. So next few month Apple might raise the bar again.

But again, if MS is using the same bullshit DRM they have now, what is the point of any discussion.

[Jonathan Sundy @ Jul 6th 2006 11:36AM]

Yet another thing to consider is that apple hasn't done anything great with the iPod in awhile and the current rumors are indicating that THE video iPod won't be out until 2007.

If this is true and we're just gonna get hd size bumps for x-mas, this gives Microsoft a release window that they may be able to capitalize on.

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 11:37AM]

"But again, if MS is using the same bullshit DRM they have now, what is the point of any discussion."

Apple's DRM with iTunes isn't bullshit?
C'mon, iPod and iTunes only work with each other. Isn't that the very definition of bullshit?

"Number one reason why iPod has been so successful is because of it's ease of use. Not everybody wants a Swiss Army Knife. they just want a Knife."

Very true.
But every other mp3 player is a Knife as well, and just a Knife. Why haven't they caught on?
Marketing would be the number one reason there. The iPod being a better product is a huge reason, but not #1.

"This is going to be the ugliest and least user friendly player on the market. Microsoft does not have the same reputation for high end hardware or design that Apple (or Sony) have."

Sony lost that reputation a long time ago. Their new TV line is an attempt to get it back, but talk to big Home Theater buffs, ask them what they think of Sony products. Sony is NOT considered to be good for high end hardware. They lost that a decade ago.

As for it being the ugliest and least user friendly, you base that on what? Your dislike for Microsoft? C'mon, Creative is the #2 out there right now! Look how awful their computer division is, yet they manage to be #2 in mp3 players. Clearly the computer division doesn't reflect all that much on the portable division. Why would it be different with Microsoft?

[Fozz @ Jul 6th 2006 11:39AM]

mkh, the iPod is certainly not a loss leader to generate profit via the iTMS. Quite the opposite in fact; Apple only makes a couple of cents on every song they sell, but in doing so tie their customers down to using the company's MP3 players.

Obviously this is the cycle Microsoft are trying to break by offering a free download of every iTMS-purchased track. Sadly this means their player is going to come with some comprehensive security to ensure people don't just borrow a friend's MS player in order to provide validation for a free download from MS of copies of all their iTMS-purchased tracks.

Sorry, did I use "Microsoft" and "comprehensive security" in the same sentence..? Genuine Advantage-o-tastic...

[Christian @ Jul 6th 2006 11:45AM]

The cell phone Digital music player combo is going to break the Ipod monopoly. I've got a V3i (Itunes RAZR) and a Video Ipod and If there was no song limit on my cell phone, I wouldn't have an Ipod. The Ipod is great, but the reality is that you're really paying for the interface and not the box (shiny and pretty). If you take the Apple interface (Itunes) or somthing better and put it on a phone with unlimited storage, the Ipod goes away. Apple knows it (They're making thier own phone) and anyone that has a good digital music player on their cell phone knows it also. Everyone has a cell phone and I can tell you that no one really likes carrying two devises when one could easily perform both functions. This is why the Ipod is going away, and Apple is going to replace it with their Itunes interface only, which will be licensed by most major manufacturers for cell phones (residual income forever). The low cost Nano's will stick around for a while to help bolster the bottom line, but The True touchscreen Video Ipod will spring up and the Video Ipods of Today (30-60 GB) and the Nano's 4 or 5 years later will disappear forever.

[i.p.freely @ Jul 6th 2006 11:47AM]

To: Jonathan Sundy

Do you own an iPod? or use iTunes with iPod?

I don't really need to hear your 3rd hand experience.
I have used both devices. Used to say the same thing about iTunes and iPod. Until I was given an old one by a friend. Well lets just say, what is out there iPod + iTunes is the best solution.

But since I know you don't like apple in general and you have not use iPod or iTunes. (gathering from your statements) Your comments are pretty baseless.
Your views are without merit since you'd already professed your bias towards apple and your lack of real world experience with the device.

You could be right but I can't trust your statement any more than I can trust an iPod Fanboy.

I'm sure you are a nice person with genuinely good intentions. But for all we know you're nothing but a MS Fanboy and iPod hater.

[Tom @ Jul 6th 2006 11:49AM]

I will certainly use this to replace my 5th gen iPOD if they bring it out with some of the things descibred. As it will use Windowns Media Player 11 it should have a good interface. While WMP10 is rather horrid, WMP11 is much better and I prefer it to iTunes now. While I love the ease of use of ITMS, URGE has been very easy to use for me, I think its a good system, simple and if you lose a track just redownload it for free!

Oh and to the people that said it will be ugly and hard to use? Have you used the 360, thats simple to use, but they will probably hire some people who have worked on things like MP3 players before to make the UI. As for the look, they would pay someone to make designs im sure, hopefully something as classy looking as WMP11.

Anyway the WIFI idea is FANTASTIC, I often think of songs I want to buy (maybe I hear or see something that makes me think about the song in the streets) but if im out and about by the time I get back home to my PC on the train its normally forgoten. So I would love to be able to do that, I also think that if it works with Xbox Live, then it has fantastic promise, I would certainly use it for that.

The iPod good as it was is starting to seem bland and pointless, as well as becoming more and more unpopular, so ill certainly be looking for more about this when I decide on my new MP3 player. Also I hope it has a better battery than the iPod.

[Rich @ Jul 6th 2006 11:51AM]

I'm not sure why we're all speculating over the UI so much. MS already have a portable device UI out, based upon the Media Centre interface. It's actually pretty good!

I've not had first hand experience with the portable Media Centre; but I do have a full size version. While there are aspects of the UI that drive me insane; by and large, it's very good. I think, becasue they've pared down the interface (compared with the all things to all people standard XP interface), it's much more intuitive and consistent.

Have a look at the online videos for the Gigabeat player (Google Video or You Tube). Personally, I think it's slicker than the iPod.

I've still no idea if this'll 'dethrone' the iPod though...

As for the HTC MVNO thing. In the UK we have a service called Shazam that works quite well. Basically, you call up a shortcode number, point your phone at some music being played, and Shazams servers work out what you're listening to. You then get an SMS with the title. What would be cool is if you got sent the song (either vie WiFi or UMTS) too! As it is, I just browse to AllOfMP3 via my smartphone, and wait till I get home, where it'll have been automatically downloaded onto my Media Centre...

[Silver @ Jul 6th 2006 11:52AM]

"Never knew an iPod owner that didn't have their's break one way or another."

Well Jonathan, this is either trollish drivel or you run with a very rough crowd, because none of MY iPod-owning friends/associates have had any problem with theirs. And my 3G iPod keeps rolling like a tank after 3 years, despite my hope that it will die so I can buy a new one.

[veto @ Jul 6th 2006 11:53AM]

if this thing has widescreen, touchscreen and live arcade support.... im sold

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 11:54AM]

"Well lets just say, what is out there iPod + iTunes is the best solution."

I'll disagree with you.
And most people that have tried alternatives likely will, too.

Well, alternatives to buying mp3s online. I have no experience with anything other than allofmp3.com. Never purchased via iTunes, nor Napster, nor Yahoo, nor any similar service.


But as far as ripping CDs, playing mp3s and transferring mp3s goes, I can't imagine being stuck using iTunes all the time. For one, it has three different programs that sit resident in memory. For another, ipodhelper.exe will keep putting itself back there until you just delete iTunes.
The interface is huge. Playlists are inconvenient. Options are limited.

Winamp is much, much better.
And why won't Apple let you drag-and-drop from Windows Explorer?


iTunes might be a nice store, and serviceable for transfering music, but it's terrible as a media player. If I'm going to be stuck using a program to move media, I might as well use one that organizes and plays it well.

[Chris @ Jul 6th 2006 11:57AM]

one thing to say about this
"I WANT IT!"

Microsofts hardware division has and continues to be probably one of the best in the industry... as for those being idiots about the 8gig being 3 gig there just dump... that isn't for the OS on the 360 it's for CACHE to speed up games.. tahts why u can have the same dashboard without a harddrive next time you talk ... DONT

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 11:57AM]

"Well Jonathan, this is either trollish drivel or you run with a very rough crowd, because none of MY iPod-owning friends/associates have had any problem with theirs."

Lots of people have had serious issues with their iPod.
No big deal, lots of people have had serious issues with any complicated piece of electronics. Especially ones like iPods, which take a beating.

Mine works wonderfully, aside from sometimes taking forever to turn on. It's extremely rarely used, however, as I have no way of using it in my car. Still, it's with me quite often, getting banged around in my briefcase. Considerably scratched up, but not annoyingly so.

[Jim @ Jul 6th 2006 11:59AM]

Nick says:

This may finally be the turning point for the mediaplayer/phone/pda Imagine walking down the street listening to your tunes on a 8-16GB flash device then all the sudden the volume goes down at the phone rings. You push a button on your stereo bluetooth headset and talk to a freind for a few minutes who tells you about this new funny video he just found. You pull out your phone/pda/mediaplayer from your pocket and download the video and watch it as you are talking to your friend. Life does not get more simple than that.

I say:

Imagine walking down the street, humming to youself. Suddanly a payphone rings, but you walk by, realizing it's probably not for you. You look around and see life happening all around you. Now THAT is as simple as life can get!

[primetime @ Jul 6th 2006 12:03PM]

"As for it being the ugliest and least user friendly, you base that on what? Your dislike for Microsoft?"

No... this is based on my own user experience and I happen to own quite a few of Microsoft's products. The original Xbox was one of the ugliest consoles ever made. The 360 improves this but the dashboard design could have been a lot better in my opinion. WMP is the same jumbled mess. I think design aesthetic counts for a lot with both hardware and software. It may even be more important than features that may or may not be used. But if I don't want to even bother with it or look at it, I am not going to buy it.

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 12:13PM]

"The original Xbox was one of the ugliest consoles ever made"

Undeniably.

As was the PS2 and, even moreso, as is the PS3.

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 12:14PM]

And it isn't as if Apple hasn't had its fair share of terrible designs.

Computer in a clear cube, anyone?
Tie-dye generation one iMacs, anyone? Or any G1 iMac, actually.
Round mouse?

[i.p.freely @ Jul 6th 2006 12:23PM]

"Apple's DRM with iTunes isn't bullshit?
C'mon, iPod and iTunes only work with each other. Isn't that the very definition of bullshit?"

Converting to MP3 and burning CD and putting it on portable device is same. What I can't do is play it on all of my computers, which means I can only play it on my PC... that little flexibility is what I am referring to.

But if you want to get into specifics:
Number of machine (Napster vs ITMS) - 3 vs 5
Burning CD - 7 vs 7
Number of Portable devices - 3 vs Unlimited
Platform - Windows vs Windows and Mac.

so yeah, I think I'll continue to use ITMS if I needed to buy songs online

(got these numbers from Napster.com)

"Very true.
But every other mp3 player is a Knife as well, and just a Knife. Why haven't they caught on?
Marketing would be the number one reason there. The iPod being a better product is a huge reason, but not #1."

But that is not always true, you try to buy an MP3 player that doesn't try to push some useless function on it. FM Radio, Voice recorders, etc. And the build quality leave lot to be desired.

I've had the pleasure of holding Creative Video Zen and Video iPod. They are both nice devices. but when you touch it and feel it and use it. You start to notice how buttons on the Zen is loose, touch pad doesn't respond. It's physically bigger (thicker). And overall quality left much to be desired.

I know some of you are probably typing "iPod is the worst ......" well if you had to build millions of these device, the probability of failure increases and number of failures also increases. And from what I know of Apple service they repair those failures.

But iPod is the better device. and if they were so bad, don't you think people would stop buying them? Do you think people are that stupid that they will repeatedly buy it.

I'm no great fan of either services or device, but from past experience and track record, I wouldn't bet my money against Apple.

[xbit @ Jul 6th 2006 12:24PM]

This is good news for the consumer but it's going to upset a lot of Microsoft's partners. Are the likes of Toshiba and Samsung going to continue making Windows DRM PMPs when they've got to directly compete with Microsoft?

The same could be said of the MVNO idea. Will Cingular and Verizon really want to pick up the latest Windows Mobile devices when they know that they will be in competition with Microsoft?

[legios @ Jul 6th 2006 12:28PM]

This cell phone / music device convergence sounds wonderful...but it will absolutely not work with today's technology.

The limiting factor is battery life. Yes it's a pain carrying two devices, but at least I can go on a business trip and expect both to work until I can get to a charger. I simple cross country flight pretty much drains the ipod battery, especially since you have to keep volume up so loud. (unless you buy an EXPENSIVE set of earphones / buds).

And even if chargers were readily available, you would be charging the battery so often that it would wear out before the device would. That would be horrible as battery replacement costs come close to equaling the cost of getting a whole new device.

Maybe portable fuel cells or nanocapacitors would fixe this, but in the mean time, I'm not holding much stock in ipod phones. (By the way, I own a Treo 650 which I absolutely love, but I never use it to play mp3s because of the battery issues.)

[ed @ Jul 6th 2006 12:31PM]

Lets see what happens.

[primetime @ Jul 6th 2006 12:35PM]

Agree with the PS2 and PS3 but that clear cube has one of the strongest followings for any computer ever. Too bad it started mostly after it was discontinued. But there is an obvious design continuity to all of Apple's products and people know what to expect. MS seems to be going in 20 different directions and simply throwing money at all of them until one design concept catches on. Their programs have never been very user friendly and Vista apparently continues this if it truly is a multistep process to simply delete a shortcut.

[Billd @ Jul 6th 2006 12:36PM]

"This is going to be the ugliest and least user friendly player on the market. Microsoft does not have the same reputation for high end hardware or design that Apple... blah blah blah"

Nice. Trying to sink it before it reaches the market.

Desperate times calls for desperate fanboy trolls. This player is blowing a hole in the fanboy universe and they are going to work nonstop to destroy this player in the media.

Think diffrent my rear!!!!

[Ectoplasm @ Jul 6th 2006 12:41PM]

This is pretty major news. Apple has a great product in the iPod, but they're becoming slow to innovate new technology or widen their market without restrictions.

I recently acquired a new phone that plays iTunes, but with the limitation of transfering files at USB 1.0 (!) and you can only have 100 song total on the phone no matter what, plus you can only play AAC (not MP3- although you can convert them to AAC).

By Microsoft offering a solution for both a portable player and phones, is huge. It's a missed opportunity on Apple's part. Also I'm really surprised Apple hasn't released a wireless iPod yet.

[juepucta @ Jul 6th 2006 12:52PM]

It's important that it has a better screen than Apple's devide. You want a crisp, defined look at your handheld blue screen of death.

G.

[webdog @ Jul 6th 2006 12:58PM]

You know why this is complete BS?

Because how long do you think it will take someone to hack the code that scans iTunes for purchased tracks so you can just add in whatever you want? A week? And what about video? Do I get to scan iTunes for purchased video as well?

Sorry. I don't buy it. M$ might be willing to take a SMALL loss, but they're in it for the money. If you don't see profit for a service for half a decade because you basically bought your competition away, what's the point? How much has the industry changed in the last five years?

[chris @ Jul 6th 2006 1:13PM]

Noticed that the album cover in that blurry image is 'Everything All the Time' from the Band of Horses - here's the non blurry image on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E6GBV2/sr=8-1/qid=1152205924/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4840848-2830527?ie=UTF8

Great album - good to see whoever is playing with that MS prototype has good taste in music. Seems to make that blurry image a bit more believable as well?

[Silver @ Jul 6th 2006 1:13PM]

"If you don't see profit for a service for half a decade because you basically bought your competition away, what's the point?"

Xbox anyone?

I think Microsoft's number 1 priority in this life is complete and utter world domination. Profit (while massive), remains a distant #2. How else can you explain their shoddy, shotgun approach at taking on every technology-related market on the planet?

[MosquitoControl @ Jul 6th 2006 1:15PM]

"But that is not always true, you try to buy an MP3 player that doesn't try to push some useless function on it. FM Radio, Voice recorders, etc."

FM tuner is useless?
I'd say it's much more fitting than video.
Now a phone, that's useless. I don't need to spend time worrying about the battery life of my phone while listening to music. If my iPod battery dies, oh well. If my phone battery dies, well, that's a problem.
I'd love an FM tuner on my iPod.
I'd hate a phone on my iPod. I won't sacrifice on my phone. Not that any have nearly the clarity my old StarTac did.



"but that clear cube has one of the strongest followings for any computer ever."

Which says a lot about the priorities of some Apple fans. It had heat issues. It had wire issues. It couldn't really be upgraded.
So it looked beautiful, but was horribly impractical.
But, for a lot of Apple fans, image is everything. By no means all, or even a large minority, but a lot.